What is "value"? Do we compare purchase price to what you can recover after 5 or 10 years?
I have always learned that we buy cheap tools twice.
What is "value"? Do we compare purchase price to what you can recover after 5 or 10 years?
I have always learned that we buy cheap tools twice.
@JorgePD said in Did anyone made a copy of "The Circle of Breath":
Would working on the circle of breath be part of your warm up?
It is the core of everything that I do. If I have time for a warmup, for sure. If not, some other time of the day. We need to stay connected to the needs of our bodies and attitudes.
@walter-sk Microns separate easy and hard removal. It is still a simple job for a tech but "all your strength" could make the repair very costly.
I have had students with this problem. It can happen if one lays the trumpet down with the 2nd slide underneath. It takes a small hit (no dent) and it is microns out...
There are no "best" valves. Each type has its advantage and disadvantages. For a student horn, bulletproof stainless valves have a strong selling point. To a professional player that takes meticulous care in oiling and cleaning, no technology is better or worse.
As far as design goes, the Selmer Radial 2° valve block had definite ergonomic advantages. I can't say that they are faster than Bach, Getzen, Monette or Schilke valves however.
Thank you for digging this out. I had as much fun putting it originally together as many had after using it for a while.
@stumac I think that most are dead because the market did not want what they were making - for the price that they were asking. Value is an interesting concept and it is still exists today. When businesses expand, they take a risk. When businesses have more overhead than turnover, they have a problem.
I admire the Chinese for their granular production. The same production line can build a $50 or a $1000 trumpet. The quality is determined by the person placing the order not the artisan. I have played prototypes of both. The knowledgable reseller does not HAVE to screw their customer.
On another side, I bought a 3d printer and have been printing mouthpieces. They are WAY TOO GOOD. I am not selling or taking orders, I am learning and offering my students the possibility to play before they pay. They can evaluate what the difference between an A, B, C, D, E cup is as well as backbores and rim shapes. Then they buy what works. There has not been much R&D on natural trumpet mouthpieces - just copies made of historical ones without knowledge if they were „high performance“ back then. For less than $1, I can experiment until I am happy. Then the 3d model can be made in silver, brass, copper or any printable plastic. Will this change the mouthpiece market - I certainly believe so. Print on demand could be a great advantage to a pro shop. No appreciable inventory. The printers with suitable resolution are available. Kelly mouthpiece anyone?
My first action when reviewing a new piece is to determine phrasing and breathing. I enter breath marks, dynamics, slurs and other info (pencil). I ALWAYS prepare this way and practice with everything that I have decided. Only this way does it become habit for me and it relieves my mind during performance of some unnecessary decision making.
There are occasions when I enter notes to take a "small breath". I need this when I have little time further down to exhale before I fill up. The Bach Christmas Oratorio bass aria #8 "Grosser Herr" is an example of this situation. One could also try to muscle through, I just have had better luck through optimization.
@djeffers78 Standard “problem” thread. What does best mean? Good enough? What definition of value do we declare? Resale value, acceptance by teachers, blend with other horns, bling factor for the student? The list goes on and on.
My point is that the term “BEST” is about the WORST description that there is. Because Monette is not Bach or Yamaha, would that be an off brand?
Are we looking in this thread for good value at a lowest price or innovation at any price? Are we considering dealer support? Financing possibilities?
I am actually allergic the the word “best” because it simply is not a factor, rather an opinion that is generally worthless.
Now, if we are looking for good deals for students, we need to be very clear about the advantages and disadvantages IF that student is going to music school. If we are considering vintage instruments, there may be a coolness factor but a big disadvantage in ensemble playing. Vintage instruments may need serious TLC to get the valves tight and slides working smoothly.
My students generally start with a Yamaha 3xxx or 4xxx model. Resale is great if they end up in sports programs. Performance makes life easy. Playing characteristics are sensational. Service in Germany is top notch - from the dealers AND Yamaha.
@Dr-GO No, I have never needed circular breathing to get me through any particular phrase.
Most of my gigs are not sight reading, so I do have time to „feed my dependence“ on organisation and preparation.
When I do sightread (happens with commercial shows that I play), I still use the pencil when looking at the parts before the rehearsal. Potential missed accidentals get marked as well as „special breathing“ or time change situations. During the usual rehearsal, I fill in the rest of the dots.
This is what I do and teach. It is not a recipe for everyone or other situations. It helps to keep those that book me loyal.
@Kehaulani If that was the goal, they failed miserably. I consider them to be light years apart on blow, core and tone.
Annie,
we are creatures of habit. With your "repaired lip", you have to retrain what your brain expects. That takes a couple of THOUSAND repetitions.
My experience is to use what has worked for you before but under no circumstance stress out. Our brain works on a reward/punishment system and constantly trying to "hit" high notes sends a frustration message - blocking development and increasing doubt.
Without having you in my studio for a lesson, I would recommend only safe stuff:
I am sort of an expert on this because I lost all of my teeth 3 years ago in an accident. I was lucky because there were very few gigs during Covid. I had time to work things out. The road back was full of "back to the basics" and keeping my attitude in the right direction. My upper octave is not complete yet but it is enough for the symphonic work that I do.
@IrishTrumpeter
My son lives and works near Cork. If Covid settles down, I may visit this year.
My take on the piccolo trumpet? It is simply another trumpet. Any instrument needs time to figure out what it can do. That means IF we are interested, we start slowly and build basic skills - then move to more difficult things.
Samurai, you documented a VERY serious weakness in your playing. "I recently borrowed a piccolo trumpet from a friend and tried playing "Bolero" and "Exhibition"."
What did you expect? You claim to have played it well on the C trumpet - do you think that your definition of "well" is the same as mine (serious question). Would the truth be more like "I barely get through with the C but crash with the picc"? I have played first trumpet often enough on Pictures - it is serious work even for professional players.
I use a G trumpet with a big bell for Schmüyle (everything else on the Bb or C depending on the orchestra. He was a skinny, lying, cheating, nervous runt and probably owed Samuel Goldenberg money. That nervousness is not what I associate with the picc. I play the high Bolero part on the D trumpet.
The picc is/was an incredible opportunity for me to earn money on church gigs - supporting even until today, my trumpet collecting.
When I get a new trumpet, I stay in the comfort zone for as long as it takes to get acclimated. With the Bb picc that was high C above the staff. I played easy oboe and recorder chamber music at the beginning. Then came "glorious C and D major baroque trumpet literature". I always warmed up with the big trumpet and finished the practice session with the same. The picc was "embedded" in between. Clarke, Arban - all of the same routines - just up an octave. I do not post about my adventures until I have figured out how things work. I certainly do not assume that anyone is impressed by the "hard music" that I claim to have tried.
So, back to the serious weakness: when we approach something, we need to start slowly. We are creatures of habit and if we jump into the deep end, we usually develop bad habits that are much more difficult to cure later. Thoughtful practice means that we know our strengths and weaknesses and practice to perfect. With THIS attitude, the picc is a project for a month or two before we can start to make music. After that, we simply practice it along with our other instruments and keep balance. It is just another trumpet.
This thread will show the "foolishness" of putting "slotting" high on the list of trumpet priorities. We need flexibility to play in tune.
There is a "bible" on intonation written by Chris Leuba - a former horn player with the Chicago Symphony. I am not sure if it is still in print, but it is certainly worth having.
https://www.hornguys.com/products/a-study-of-musical-intonation-by-christopher-leuba-pub-cherry
I do not consider scales to be evil or out of place. They are simply part of the low impact repetition toolbox that can give a student patterns for recall in many different contexts. They are an essential part of holistic development in my world. I use them for teaching just about every technical discipline that a trumpeter must develop: time, transposition, intonation, articulation, range. Naturally they are not the "only" things taught. We had a discussion about proportions during practice/ lessons at TrumpetMaster. I remember agreeing with several about approximately 1/3rd body use, 1/3rd technical studies and 1/3rd tunes/repertoire. We discussed the issues surrounding a "too rigid" structure and having the student in clear focus. During periods of high dedication, we the teachers can raise the bar at many levels - if we have a method to even define the bar..
My personal view is that we must feed our internal reward system. Measurable success changes the way that our central nervous system processes stimuli. Mosche Feldenkrais and several Yogis deal with this at an even higher level.
Proper use of scales makes the Haydn, Hummel, Neruda, Tartini, Verdi Requiem, Tschaikowsky 5 certainly "easier".
If that is the original case, it is a far east creation. I do not think that a realistic value can be placed without physically seeing the horn - even if it were a popular brand. Valve condition, repairs, etc. all determine its value.
In this case with the leadpipe sleeve, I would assume that it did not come from the factory this way. I would suspect someone customized.
In my view, it looks terribly unbalanced. Sheet bracing, removable bell imply "heavy" something that is not good for a horn not designed to specifically be that way.
I would insist that the major difference between many "older" cornets and trumpets is the mouthpiece and attitude of the player. If someone wants a killer 50s Martin Committee for cheap, buy the cornet and get a good tech to change the mouthpiece receiver to trumpet.
All reasonable colleagues will have no issue!
Mavbe some of us are reading the auction incorrectly. The engraving says Duke Donin FROM Louis Armstrong. Christies has a bunch of "non scientific" theories - not backed by documentation (invoice, serial number. history):
https://www.christies.com/features/The-1948-Louis-Satchmo-Armstrong-trumpet-10881-3.aspx
Certainly a collectors item, but you really have to want to believe the conjecture about Louis having actually played theis horn...
Hmm, I probably shouldn't answer, but the original post struck me in a way that I can't let go of easily.
I don't think that ANYONE OWES ANYONE ELSE ANYTHING. Posters that come on with how they have been given a rough time are very suspicious in my book. The second "telltale" tidbit in this thread is the mention of low funds being a reason to call fair repair rates "outrageous" or even the myth of those "outrageous" prices driving us to DIY.
Skilled veterans NEVER treat musicians in need with "contempt" (their may be other types of non-customers that rub them in a way that generates less cooperation however! As a matter of fact, the seasoned veterans (at least all that I know) are usually very willing to help the needy in special ways.
My drive to DIY is based only on my personal interest about how things work and none of my techs have heartburn about it.
Now if we can get beyond the very bogus "contempt" for those making an honest living, there are a lot of resources available for the DIY trumpeter. I took a natural trumpet building course that lasted 5 days. We had three professionals showing us (13 course members) their "tricks of the trade", from soldering to brazing, to making tubes and bells, hand hammering, bending our self made tubes and engraving. In addition, we all had successfully built a working trumpet after 4 days.
The artisans that I work with are very responsive when I ask "Can you show me how to do that". I have learned how to properly change leadpipes, set the gap on a mouthpiece receiver and what happens when we move a brace. They have helped me to purchase the right tools for specific jobs. They have all let me in on "secret tweeks" - knowing that I would not abuse the information.
I know of no website with trumpet repair tips for the DIY scene. The reasons are manifold. No respect, strong differences in the definition of "quality", myths.
So, my recommendation is to look in the mirror. Maybe, just maybe you will see something that could change your relationship with the professionally qualified. My firsthand experience is that they are much more forthcoming than the way you came on in your original post.